What other trucks are you shopping against the 2021 F150 Tremor?

[modified]

What other trucks are you considering buying over the new F150 Tremor?

 

[mdax]

ZR2 Bison

 

[RotorHead695]

None....I'm either taking delivery or sticking with my Raptor and losing my deposit.

 

[Yeti]

I currently have a purpose built 2017 Rebel. I'm shopping a 2021/2 diesel Rebel against the F150 Tremor. For me it is going to be diesel vs payload. The EB does make an argument for a diesel less important.

 

[James Dean]

F-250 Tremor is in the running. I also want to see the Ram Back Country that should also be out soon too

 

[Yeti]

I'm going to need someone to help talk me off the ledge... I happened to find the unicorn Power Wagon (but it still turns like a barge)
1500+ payload. The Power Wagon is far and away the best off road truck available, today. The problem has always been payload and weight. Ram Rebel was very good in that it was lighter and very capable.
Enter the F150 Tremor. A better Rebel than the rebel and a better truck than the Power Wagon. And it has a locker(ish) life challenges solved. I can now move on to another of life's challenges...

But wait. Ford doesn't seem to be interested in building the best all-around overland/truck. So then I came across the Power Wagon with 1500+ pound payload. being an engineer minded individual, I set up a comparison matrix.

I need your help in talking me off the ledge, fellas.

	2021 Power Wagon	2021 F150 Tremor		advantage
packages	basic/minimal +tow	maxed		ford
GVWR	8565​	7050​		ford
Payload minimum	1520​	1600​		even
Towing	10K'ish	10,900​		even
Engine	6.4L NA	3.5 Turbo		RAM
MPG'ish	12 to 15	17 to 20		Ford
HP	410​	400​		RAM
Torque	429​	500​		FORD
rear locker	electronic	electronic		even
front locker	electronic	LSD		RAM
winch	included	$3,000 upgrades		RAM
35" wheels	and larger	max		RAM
articulation	Awesome	good		RAM
weight	HEAVY	reasonable		ford
bed length	76"	65"		RAM
comfort	better	good		RAM
luxury	ok	great		ford
seats	6​	5​		ford
auto drive	assist only	yes		ford
auto park	no	yes		ford
power	battery needed	it is a friggin generator		ford
screen	nice	better		ford
cameras	very good	good		RAM
approach/departure/breakover	very good	OK		RAM
auto 2 zone AC	yes	yes		even
heated front/steering	yes	yes		even
heated rear seats	no	yes		ford
price	$55,000​	$63,000​		RAM
availability	Now - 12 weeks	6 months or more		RAM
rock sliders	1300​	1100​		even
lift	2"=$1200	2"=$2,000		RAM
lift needed	no	yes		RAM
turbo	$7,000​	NA		ford
Full suspension	$7,000​	$12,000​		RAM
minimum cost	57,500​	$71,100​		RAM
perfect run	$70,300​	$79,100​		RAM
PR bang for the buck	Absolute beast	nimble autonomous		ford
resale value	bad - ~45K	good ~ 50K		Ford
Manufacturer more interested in selling a truck	RAM	Not Ford		RAM
		Advantage
	Ford	Ram
	15​	18​

 

[P0H0]

Why did you give the Font Locker to RAM — Torsen is seems to be far better in that it isn’t just an LSD, it multiplies the additional torque being delivered. Seriously look under both trucks for protective plates and placement — look at the frame too. In regards to bed length, if you are looking for a longer bed, perhaps the F250 Tremor — may solve your payload issue too.

Also, regarding RAM — Look at the RAM TRX vs. Raptor as an example and think back over things. RAM TRX is pretty much turning out to be a street racer as it is lacking in design for off-road. Apparently, all the added HP doesn’t mean much if it out performs the vehicle design (front bumper, suspension, frame). What are the Power Wagon short comings — isn’t the Power Wagon a 2500 series truck too? How does it compare to the SuperDuty? Is Power Wagon payload and towing low when compared to its own class?

 

[MYTVLZ]

f250 tremor and 2022 trd pro tundra when it comes out

 

[Yeti]

The comparison is PW to F150 Tremor. While I know I'll eventually get the F350 Tremor, I also know it doesn't fit my needs, currently. This isn't about manufacturer comparisons. It's about a use case where one truck is being compared to another for a given set of facts/requirements. This isn't apples to oranges, it is "What is the best single tool for a series of jobs".

The Tremor is a substantially better replacement for my current Rebel but so too is the PW. My gut tells me the Tremor will be a better fit for what I want but when I compare the bullet items, that doesn't really match up.

PW is heavier, doesn't turn as well and will have less payload and tech than Tremor and drinks gas like a fat kid drinks milk shakes and there is reduced resale value. *** This speaks to about 50% of my trails. Tight, narrow turns.
Tremor has less articulation, traction (real locker>LSD) and bed space and has a more complex engine and costs more (mainly because I ordered all the tech) *** The other 50% of my trails. wider, BIG rocks, hard jolts to the truck when using the sliders as God intended.

driving to/from my trips, the Tremor wins, hands down with range, autonomous driving, reasonably comfortable seats. The PW has substantially more comfortable seating but it doesn't really matter since I'll need to stop every 3 hours for gas.

The PW is a better towing rig for the load. You simply can't beat a modern multi link with 200 year old tech. That said, the Tremor will tow what I want well and I wouldn't have to stop every 1-2 hours to refuel.

For my current needs, the SD Tremor is simply too big. I've considered (and still am) accelerating my "retirement from trail trips" but my ego doesn't accept my current age. Nor does my ego or manufacturer ownership/loyalty define my requirements.

GM doesn't offer acceptable off road use Chevy Silverado ZR 2 announced
Toyota (full size truck) doesn't offer payload needed - Release date 19 Sept, 21
Nissan doesn't offer either
MB is 4 times the cost and not available in the US
Unimog or LMTV/FMTV are all too big and not comfortable for my old, fat ass.

If Ford weren't fucking about, this wouldn't even be a discussion but seeing as I have maybe 5 more seasons of trail trips, I'm not sure I'm willing to leave one of those 5 seasons relying on Ford to deliver.

 

[RotorHead695]

Why did you give the Font Locker to RAM — Torsen is seems to be far better in that it isn’t just an LSD, it multiplies the additional torque being delivered. Seriously look under both trucks for protective plates and placement — look at the frame too. In regards to bed length, if you are looking for a longer bed, perhaps the F250 Tremor — may solve your payload issue too.

Also, regarding RAM — Look at the RAM TRX vs. Raptor as an example and think back over things. RAM TRX is pretty much turning out to be a street racer as it is lacking in design for off-road. Apparently, all the added HP doesn’t mean much if it out performs the vehicle design (front bumper, suspension, frame). What are the Power Wagon short comings — isn’t the Power Wagon a 2500 series truck too? How does it compare to the SuperDuty? Is Power Wagon payload and towing low when compared to its own class?

And the TRX is full time AWD.

 

[RotorHead695]

f250 tremor and 2022 trd pro tundra when it comes out

The new Tundra TRD Pro really is going a different direction than the rest of the Tundra line. They are trying to go after the Raptor. So IMO, not really comparable to any of the Tremor line.

 

[P0H0]

The F150 Tremor — Trail Turn Assist seems to be a big bonus for you

 

[RotorHead695]

The comparison is PW to F150 Tremor. While I know I'll eventually get the F350 Tremor, I also know it doesn't fit my needs, currently. This isn't about manufacturer comparisons. It's about a use case where one truck is being compared to another for a given set of facts/requirements. This isn't apples to oranges, it is "What is the best single tool for a series of jobs".

The Tremor is a substantially better replacement for my current Rebel but so too is the PW. My gut tells me the Tremor will be a better fit for what I want but when I compare the bullet items, that doesn't really match up.

PW is heavier, doesn't turn as well and will have less payload and tech than Tremor and drinks gas like a fat kid drinks milk shakes and there is reduced resale value. *** This speaks to about 50% of my trails. Tight, narrow turns.
Tremor has less articulation, traction (real locker>LSD) and bed space and has a more complex engine and costs more (mainly because I ordered all the tech) *** The other 50% of my trails. wider, BIG rocks, hard jolts to the truck when using the sliders as God intended.

driving to/from my trips, the Tremor wins, hands down with range, autonomous driving, reasonably comfortable seats. The PW has substantially more comfortable seating but it doesn't really matter since I'll need to stop every 3 hours for gas.

The PW is a better towing rig for the load. You simply can't beat a modern multi link with 200 year old tech. That said, the Tremor will tow what I want well and I wouldn't have to stop every 1-2 hours to refuel.

For my current needs, the SD Tremor is simply too big. I've considered (and still am) accelerating my "retirement from trail trips" but my ego doesn't accept my current age. Nor does my ego or manufacturer ownership/loyalty define my requirements.

GM doesn't offer acceptable off road use
Toyota (full size truck) doesn't offer payload needed
Nissan doesn't offer either
MB is 4 times the cost and not available in the US
Unimog or LMTV/FMTV are all too big and not comfortable for my old, fat ass.

If Ford weren't fucking about, this wouldn't even be a discussion but seeing as I have maybe 5 more seasons of trail trips, I'm not sure I'm willing to leave one of those 5 seasons relying on Ford to deliver.

Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I just don't care for RAM styling. Between that and the weight of the PW and length, it's out for me. I want something that will make tighter turns and feel more nimble.

You should research the running boards that come on the Tremor. I haven't dug deep into these yet, but the ones on the Raptor are structurally sound and do act as rock sliders. I've had my Raptor running boards sitting on boulders. You also mention articulation being a win for Ram, but if you are replacing anyway, then you can get it how you want.

 

[Yeti]

Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I just don't care for RAM styling. Between that and the weight of the PW and length, it's out for me. I want something that will make tighter turns and feel more nimble.

You should research the running boards that come on the Tremor. I haven't dug deep into these yet, but the ones on the Raptor are structurally sound and do act as rock sliders. I've had my Raptor running boards sitting on boulders. You also mention articulation being a win for Ram, but if you are replacing anyway, then you can get it how you want.

I'm comfortable in stating that I will fold any OE running board without thinking twice. For the Ford/RAM trucks, there is really only White Knuckle Offroad (in the states) or custom fabrication. It may sound funny but I use the sliders as part of my suspension. I use the to turn and to support my truck over rocks.

I've always been a form>function guy. The Ford's definitely look better but from inside my truck, I really don't see the outside. I really do think the nimbleness of the Tremor will be the ultimate winning factor for it. That is IF Ford can deliver.

5 seasons, maybe 10 total trips left. At least parts/upgrade development will still continue over the winter so I'll be able to build it up more quickly

 

[RotorHead695]

I'm comfortable in stating that I will fold any OE running board without thinking twice. For the Ford/RAM trucks, there is really only White Knuckle Offroad (in the states) or custom fabrication. It may sound funny but I use the sliders as part of my suspension. I use the to turn and to support my truck over rocks.

I've always been a form>function guy. The Ford's definitely look better but from inside my truck, I really don't see the outside. I really do think the nimbleness of the Tremor will be the ultimate winning factor for it. That is IF Ford can deliver.

5 seasons, maybe 10 total trips left. At least parts/upgrade development will still continue over the winter so I'll be able to build it up more quickly

I don't get quite that crazy. My buddy has a really nice custom fabricated set on his Tacoma and he is the same as you. Who needs Trail Turn Assist when you can just pivot off a tree? haha

 

[P0H0]

Sounds like you use rock sliders as a primitive form of Trail Turn Assist — I just seen this list of the benefits of rock sliders:

• Body protection: They protect the underside of your rig when driving over rocks.
• Kickout: A kick out is a bump in the back of the slider that pushes your truck or SUV away from an obstacle or rock, further protecting the body of the vehicle.
• Pivot Point: As we mentioned before, you can use a rock slider as a pivot point for tight turns.
• Recovery point: Rock sliders can also act as an attachment point for when you need to flip your rig back over.
• Ingress/egress step: Just like a side step, but better.

LOL!!! You can use your own winch with some additional mechanical advantage gained by creative routing of the cable to flip your own rig back over after the rock slider pivot maneuver went horribly wrong.

 

[P0H0]

Competition has been using Trail Turn Assist for years.

 

[P0H0]

Oh no — I can see Yeti grocery shopping with his wife. Look honey, she has rocker bars with kickouts. Hehe

In all seriousness, check this out:

 

[Yeti]

Sounds like you use rock sliders as a primitive form of Trail Turn Assist — I just seen this list of the benefits of rock sliders:

• Body protection: They protect the underside of your rig when driving over rocks.
• Kickout: A kick out is a bump in the back of the slider that pushes your truck or SUV away from an obstacle or rock, further protecting the body of the vehicle.
• Pivot Point: As we mentioned before, you can use a rock slider as a pivot point for tight turns.
• Recovery point: Rock sliders can also act as an attachment point for when you need to flip your rig back over.
• Ingress/egress step: Just like a side step, but better.

LOL!!! You can use your own winch with some additional mechanical advantage gained by creative routing of the cable to flip your own rig back over after the rock slider pivot maneuver went horribly wrong.

Yup. That's a thing. Self recovery is key since I do many of my trips solo.

 

[Yeti]

Oh no — I can see Yeti grocery shopping with his wife. Look honey, she has rocker bars with kickouts. Hehe

In all seriousness, check this out:

Funny. That, in fact, has happened. Then I went into how she needs to learn to use them, well.

I know I'll never see a time where the truck will be my spotter and give me the best line. And definitely not be around when it can literally drive itself through those types of obstacles. But damn, I love the thought of it. That would extend my ability to do these trips but another 10 years or so. I mean... enable more people to explore the truly remarkable parts of the world without doing as much damage to the environment...