8112 for Tremor confirmed

[Machine]

Forgive my ignorance here, but I'm also looking at the Bilstein 8100 series for the rear of my Tremor. If you need to remove the blocks back there to make these fit, doesn't that mean that the truck would ride the height of the missing blocks lower in the back? I don't want to lose any height- in fact, I'd prefer to gain some height as I'm putting my Halo/Elka IFP 2.5 front coilovers back on in the front, which add a bit of height up front to fit the 35" Mickey Thompsons.

I know some people cringe at the mixing of brands, but I wanted to try Bilsteins. I have some Halos lined up if this won't work, but they're so much more expensive.

Thanks

 

[GREYWOLF]

Forgive my ignorance here, but I'm also looking at the Bilstein 8100 series for the rear of my Tremor. If you need to remove the blocks back there to make these fit, doesn't that mean that the truck would ride the height of the missing blocks lower in the back? I don't want to lose any height- in fact, I'd prefer to gain some height as I'm putting my Halo/Elka IFP 2.5 front coilovers back on in the front, which add a bit of height up front to fit the 35" Mickey Thompsons.

I know some people cringe at the mixing of brands, but I wanted to try Bilsteins. I have some Halos lined up if this won't work, but they're so much more expensive.

Thanks

Hey, I’m going to add my two-cents here…

My first question is why are you wanting to put Halo/Elka IFP 2.5s in the front? I’m not asking this in any sort of passive-agressive or dismissive way, I’m genuinely interested to know.

Now, for your proposed set-up — my primary -and significant- concern about how the Halo/Elkas are valved. Even if they’re digressive like the Bilstein’s, I’d be genuinely worried about the front and rear having very difficult characteristics. I feel like it’s reasonable to assume you’re looking for more performance, but if the front-end of the vehicle is behaving differently than the rear, then you’d be spending a lot of money for nothing.

That said, I reached out to an industry person this week and I’m still trying to get something together for the Tremor market. I know I previously joked about starting a GoFundMe, but I’m honestly considering it now. Hahaha.

 

[NickJ28]

A. You do not need to remove the block. Thats a fallacy.
B. Digressive vs progressive vs linear valving comparisons are blown completely out of proportion on the forums. A linear piston can be valved significantly stiffer than a digressive. In fact, the entire point of digressive piston is to have lower high speed force than a linear piston. And I can make a digressive piston act like a linear piston with the right shim stack (and vice versa).


Greywolf - what is it exactly that you are looking for that ADS or Radflo don't currently offer?

 

[Machine]

Hey, I’m going to add my two-cents here…

My first question is why are you wanting to put Halo/Elka IFP 2.5s in the front? I’m not asking this in any sort of passive-agressive or dismissive way, I’m genuinely interested to know.

Now, for your proposed set-up — my primary -and significant- concern about how the Halo/Elkas are valved. Even if they’re digressive like the Bilstein’s, I’d be genuinely worried about the front and rear having very difficult characteristics. I feel like it’s reasonable to assume you’re looking for more performance, but if the front-end of the vehicle is behaving differently than the rear, then you’d be spending a lot of money for nothing.

That said, I reached out to an industry person this week and I’m still trying to get something together for the Tremor market. I know I previously joked about starting a GoFundMe, but I’m honestly considering it now. Hahaha.

Hi! Thanks for your reply. I had Halo/Elkas on the front and back before my truck was rear-ended. I was able to get the front suspension off before the truck was officially totaled, so was able to keep that and one of the rear shocks (other one was pinned). Long story short, truck was totaled, repaired and I re-bought it, but haven't been working for the past 2 years (doing full-time medical/disaster volunteer work, not just a lazy slacker) so haven't had the money to re-replace the suspension. Now that I've added employment to the volunteer work and am once again a compensated productive member of society, I'm looking to replace. Ok, that was a long answer hehe.

I take your concern. Maybe I just need to start a GoFundMe as well and just buy the Halo/Elka rears... (actually I did have a GoFundMe for my other disaster response team, but that didn't get us enough money and I had to give that to the team... hehehe)

 

[GREYWOLF]

A linear piston can be valved significantly stiffer than a digressive. In fact, the entire point of digressive piston is to have lower high speed force than a linear piston. And I can make a digressive piston act like a linear piston with the right shim stack (and vice versa).


Greywolf - what is it exactly that you are looking for that ADS or Radflo don't currently offer?

Hey,

I assume the first part was said with me in mind, so I’d like to address it first (hahaha). I agree that a linear piston and digressive piston can be shimmed to achieve a similar overall digressive feel. For example, Falcon uses what they calla linear-digressive valving by using a linear piston with a large washer on the back of their valve stack to create a higher crack pressure and thus an overall digressive shock curve (if I remember my visit to the Falcon factory correctly hahaha).

That said, a digressive shock and linear shock can and likely would have similar high-speed compression, the difference is low speed. For example, I specifically chose Bilstein 5100s for its digressive valving because I tow a lot and wanted more low-speed compression dampening to compensate for the trailer.

Re: ADS & Radflo — ADS, so far as I can tell, is just a basic 2.5” with an external adjustable compression knob (no independent high and low speed circuits, and no internal hydraulic bump compression and rebound ‘bump-stops’). Moreover, ADS is a progressive valving.

Radflow appears to have the same features (or lack thereof) but they don’t specify what kind of piston they have and “Velocity-Sensitive Deflective Disc, Self-Adjusting” is literally every shimstack ever (haha). The higher the force, the more oil flows, the more the valve shims flex and then snap back to their original position. If anything, this makes me trust the company even less.

Lastly there’s the intangible. Bilstein is arguably OEM quality from a serviceability / longevity standpoint, and outperforms everything else on the market from a performance standpoint as well. I welcome competition / options, but yeah. Right now they have the best tech available to the consumer.

@Machine — my gut-check says match the rear to the front because when companies are doing their shock tuning, they’re doing it with the own products and I’d be worried about poor or unsafe handling or even comfort from a frequency-tuning perspective, though I know springs play a big role in that stuff and I’m not a suspension expert, so that’s starting to get outside of my wheelhouse.

 

[Machine]

Hey,

I assume the first part was said with me in mind, so I’d like to address it first (hahaha). I agree that a linear piston and digressive piston can be shimmed to achieve a similar overall digressive feel. For example, Falcon uses what they calla linear-digressive valving by using a linear piston with a large washer on the back of their valve stack to create a higher crack pressure and thus an overall digressive shock curve (if I remember my visit to the Falcon factory correctly hahaha).

That said, a digressive shock and linear shock can and likely would have similar high-speed compression, the difference is low speed. For example, I specifically chose Bilstein 5100s for its digressive valving because I tow a lot and wanted more low-speed compression dampening to compensate for the trailer.

Re: ADS & Radflo — ADS, so far as I can tell, is just a basic 2.5” with an external adjustable compression knob (no independent high and low speed circuits, and no internal hydraulic bump compression and rebound ‘bump-stops’). Moreover, ADS is a progressive valving.

Radflow appears to have the same features (or lack thereof) but they don’t specify what kind of piston they have and “Velocity-Sensitive Deflective Disc, Self-Adjusting” is literally every shimstack ever (haha). The higher the force, the more oil flows, the more the valve shims flex and then snap back to their original position. If anything, this makes me trust the company even less.

Lastly there’s the intangible. Bilstein is arguably OEM quality from a serviceability / longevity standpoint, and outperforms everything else on the market from a performance standpoint as well. I welcome competition / options, but yeah. Right now they have the best tech available to the consumer.

@Machine — my gut-check says match the rear to the front because when companies are doing their shock tuning, they’re doing it with the own products and I’d be worried about poor or unsafe handling or even comfort from a frequency-tuning perspective, though I know springs play a big role in that stuff and I’m not a suspension expert, so that’s starting to get outside of my wheelhouse.

Thank you for your insight. Maybe I need to get another job then, hehehe. Or, just switch to full Bilstein, if I could do 8112/8011 for less than the rear Halos...

 

[NickJ28]

Hey,

I assume the first part was said with me in mind, so I’d like to address it first (hahaha). I agree that a linear piston and digressive piston can be shimmed to achieve a similar overall digressive feel. For example, Falcon uses what they calla linear-digressive valving by using a linear piston with a large washer on the back of their valve stack to create a higher crack pressure and thus an overall digressive shock curve (if I remember my visit to the Falcon factory correctly hahaha).

That said, a digressive shock and linear shock can and likely would have similar high-speed compression, the difference is low speed. For example, I specifically chose Bilstein 5100s for its digressive valving because I tow a lot and wanted more low-speed compression dampening to compensate for the trailer.

Re: ADS & Radflo — ADS, so far as I can tell, is just a basic 2.5” with an external adjustable compression knob (no independent high and low speed circuits, and no internal hydraulic bump compression and rebound ‘bump-stops’). Moreover, ADS is a progressive valving.

Radflow appears to have the same features (or lack thereof) but they don’t specify what kind of piston they have and “Velocity-Sensitive Deflective Disc, Self-Adjusting” is literally every shimstack ever (haha). The higher the force, the more oil flows, the more the valve shims flex and then snap back to their original position. If anything, this makes me trust the company even less.

Lastly there’s the intangible. Bilstein is arguably OEM quality from a serviceability / longevity standpoint, and outperforms everything else on the market from a performance standpoint as well. I welcome competition / options, but yeah. Right now they have the best tech available to the consumer.

@Machine — my gut-check says match the rear to the front because when companies are doing their shock tuning, they’re doing it with the own products and I’d be worried about poor or unsafe handling or even comfort from a frequency-tuning perspective, though I know springs play a big role in that stuff and I’m not a suspension expert, so that’s starting to get outside of my wheelhouse.

Agreed on Bilstein. And unfortunately they are the most difficult to deal with/stubborn.

Glad you understand the physics of how shocks actually work - your comment spurned a pet peeve of mine that I used to fight daily in the old Honda-Tech days that I now see rampant on truck forums. People who never got above Algebra 2 in HS man-splaining shock dynamics as if they are experts

 

[GREYWOLF]

Agreed on Bilstein. And unfortunately they are the most difficult to deal with/stubborn.

Glad you understand the physics of how shocks actually work - your comment spurned a pet peeve of mine that I used to fight daily in the old Honda-Tech days that I now see rampant on truck forums. People who never got above Algebra 2 in HS man-splaining shock dynamics as if they are experts

This genuinely made me chuckle, thank you.

I fully concede there are a lot of elements at play here, but I’ll just jokingly say I’m too poor to not understand what I’m spending my money on.

If I had a pet peeve about the automotive suspension industry, it would be the conflation of ‘designed for’ and ‘compatible with’ which manufactures seem all too comfortable with.

Re: Bilstein directly — I’m not about to say anything disparaging publicly because I’d love a formal partnership with them and my YouTube channel, but it has been said before they are rather inflexible. I already inquired about the ability for them to assemble custom shocks to which they immediately declined.

I’ve since reached out to another industry person who is uniquely capable of developing an option based on 8112s and 8100s for Tremor owners that doesn’t significantly reduce one of the features they paid for from Ford. In fact, it would increase the capability of the Tremor in the front end and I think be an overall well-balanced product, but I haven’t received a response one way or the other yet.